Shokotan recently blogged in praise of a group of American cosplayers, saying that “Americans are really great at making weapons and stuff” and wondering “How can they carry all that stuff around??”. The cosplayers in question have certainly put their hours in, and the results are impressive (although it’d be nice if there were some pictures from a better angle) but what’s more interesting is the statement that follows. “I want to know more about the otaku of the world!” she exclaims “The Internet makes it easy to keep up with the latest productions in real time, so the number of otaku across the world is increasing rapidly”
Now, say what you will about Shokotan. Shingo doesn’t care for her, but I’d call myself a fan. Nonetheless, she raises a very interesting point, which happens to be something I think about quite frequently. In short, how is it that otaku in This Country and otaku in the Other Country can have so much in common, and work toward so many common goals, and yet still have so little contact with each other?
Well, yes, we don’t speak the same language. Obviously.
Granted, that’s not exactly helping, but I can’t shake the feeling that there are more sinister circumstances at work here. When you step back and think about it, it’s really quite amazing how Japanese fandom and American (along with other English-speaking countries, yes) have managed to grow and mature to the point that they have with almost no meaningful direct contact between the two. We aren’t making our own anime or manga (and don’t nitpick me with OEL nonsense, we’re really not), we barely produce our own hobby goods at this point, and as was previously discussed, we are not making any significant amount of our own doujinshi. We are consuming the same goods, regardless of location, and even the most thick-skulled gaijin otaku is going to be aware of where these things come from. What’s more, now that, as Shokotan so astutely observed, the Internet has managed to render geographical disparity all but irrelevant, our lag time has been considerably reduced. We are very nearly watching the same shows at the same time, reading (or at least staring at) the same doujinshi at the same time, and until Shingo disappeared permanently into Azeroth we were getting pretty damn good at ogling the same figures at the same time. We’ve come a long way, but as gaijin otaku we still implicitly understand that we are always one additional step away from the source. We need subtitles to help us watch, and we’re at the mercy of other people to provide them. Although unofficial channels have become almost ridiculously efficient of late, the official channels for receiving anime and manga still leave us lagging behind by months if not years, and reduces our selection to a mere percentage of theirs.
And yet, despite some lingering disparities, our fan cultures are more notable for their startling similarities than for their pronounced differences. It’s not exactly like we wouldn’t have anything to talk about with our overseas counterparts, and at the end of the day, otaku are otaku, the same in all places.
So why, despite all that we stand to gain, does neither faction make the slightest effort to establish meaningful lines of communication. Sure, the language barrier is an issue, but I know several people who have lived in the Other Country for a prolonged period, and speak jive well enough to qualify for the gaijin pass, but still live within their own social ghetto of gaijin otaku, walking amongst their akiba-kei comrades but never actually making contact. It’s true that most otaku are naturally fairly timid creatures, reluctant to ever step out of their comfort zone, and any additional barrier to socialization can become insurmountable. Still…the language issue certainly isn’t helping, but it seems like by itself it would be a solvable problem given enough time and people. I’m guilty of this myself, to a point, having spent a considerable amount of time in Tokyo’s otaku hangouts and never once managed to have a conversation with someone who wasn’t a shop employee or a maid. I did, however, manage to strike up an extremely productive friendship with a local otaku after I discovered that I happened to be living with him. He had an endless supply of helpful advice, tipping me off about all the best maid cafes and interesting upcoming events, and he was tremendously fascinated to learn about how otaku in other countries manage to get by with the resources available to them. In short, a good time was had by all. Why, then, is this the exception rather than the rule?
On the Other Country side, some of it is certainly just a matter of apathy. From a certain perspective, there’s really no reason they should care about American anime fans any more than Americans themselves would care about Brazilian Star Trek fans. If pressed, one would certainly acknowledge that they must exist, but even then you’re unlikely to take a lot of time out of your busy day to actively seek them out. It goes without saying that we are universally aware of them though, so clearly the onus is on us to kick things off if this party is ever going to get started.
Shoko-tan’s acknowledgment alone, however, is proof that we are starting to meet the standards for notability. There are actually a few things that we are extremely good at, and in some cases merely achieving parity is enough to generate a small amount of recognition. In the age of Nico, a dozen white guys doing the Hare Hare Yukai dance is at least worth something. Not much, I suppose, but we’ll take what we can get. Even more notably, there have been a smattering of new stories over the last few years that made the rounds in the Other Country press, featuring gaijin otaku as points of interest. These articles treat us as little more than a peculiar novelty (and on reflection, are disturbingly similar to the kind of coverage gaijin otaku periodically get in their own local news) but they represent an improvement nonetheless. Most encouraging, though, is the recent entry of gaijin otaku into the otaku metaculture zeitgeist. Looking at Sue and Angela (of Genshiken fame) one cannot help but feel an unsettling mixture of pride and shame, which speaks very highly of their accuracy.
Unfortunately, we must therefore also acknowledge the possibility that even in situations where the two factions are fully aware of each other, contact is something that neither side actually wants. For the most part, otaku are naturally passionate people, and that the same passion that unites us is also capably of generating substantial hostility over even the slightest matter. One of the most notable instances to date when international contact was achieved is, regretfully, the infamous episode when 2ch and 4chan collided over the drama surrounding the production of Gurren Lagann. Often unclear whether the participants were agreeing or disagreeing, the whole episode was amazingly hostile, and managed to prove that it is entirely possibly to have protracted flame wars without a common language. Although this serves as a moderately poor example, since the denizens of 2ch and 4chan are more or less collectively incapable of being remotely civil to anyone, let alone each other, this meeting pretty perfectly illustrates the absolute worst-case scenario for any international contact. In a way it’s a bit comforting, since it would seem that the worst is behind us. On the other hand, it’s not terribly encouraging for the future in and of itself.
I personally suspect that the underlying problem is really a simple lack of mutual respect. Each side tends to act as an unflattering mirror for the other, and through the the filter of the Internet, it is only natural for the stories that make it across the language barrier to be the most horrific and extreme examples of each culture. From this, it’s only natural for our country to develop the impression that Other Country otaku are all borderline-psychotic hikikomoris doomed to live out their entire lives devoid of contact with 3D women. And likewise, it’s only natural for them to see us as obnoxious and boorish parasites, latching on to an “exotic” culture without ever developing a real understanding or appreciation remaining hopelessly out of touch and making up for what we lack in expertise using pure volume. We begrudgingly accept that the existence of the other faction is probably a benefit in the abstract, but remain disinclined to actually spend any time together. Again, this is not a phenomenon unique to the international divide, though. We are just as likely to see other groups of otaku with whom we share a language but whose guiding interests are incompatible with our own. The harsh reality is that in the event that we truly do get to know each other better, there’s no guarantee we will actually like each other.
I’d like to think it’s still worth a shot, though.
>> and through the the filter of the Internet, it is only natural for the stories that make it across the language barrier to be the most horrific and extreme examples of each culture.
Nah, that’s just sankakucomplex’s fault ;-)
And from your first section, it feels like the Western fandom is adept at creating derived works that are mostly orthogonal to what Japanese fandom does. I wonder if it’s just due to cultural and/or legal differences. In terms of audiovisual mashups, Western audiences tend to produce a lot more AMVs, while on the other side, we see a lot more seishiga MADs and/or neta/voiceover MADs. There’s definitely a lot more doujinshi being drawn in Japan, but over here, it feels that fanfics are more popular. SS (short stories) do exist in Japan, but I think doujin work is predominantly doujinshi. I wonder if it’s due to the average ratio of novels to comic books that a kid reads.
>> since the denizens of 2ch and 4chan are more or less collectively incapable of being remotely civil to anyone
Actually, depending on which segment of 2ch you visit, there will be varying levels of civility. I’ve generally found 2ch to be amazingly civil considering the type of system they have (totally anonymous, almost no moderation at all). It seems to me that as long as you adhere to their customs (which may be hard to learn), you usually won’t come off too badly.
Sadly, it does seem to be the case that there just isn’t much interest in establishing relations, on either side. Taking established nerd/geekdom as an example(and one which I can safely lay some claim to), your average nerd(And please note I use the term respectfully, I’m not intentionally belittling anyone with the word) is going to be more comfortable with other, similar nerds. It’s simply easier to establish common likes/dislikes, fears, and passions with someone more or less like me, than it would be to bond with someone who exercises religiously, or is heavily into sports, death metal, or what have you. In the same way, the same concept(nerd+nerd vs. nerd+jock or some such) is going to hold true with regard to nerds of one country or region developing bonds with nerds of another country or region. While some, possibly many, common bonds exist, the foreign nerd is simply ‘too different’ from a nerd of the same country, and establishing regular, friendly contact will be much more challenging and demanding a task.
Also, despite the fact that we’re essentially enjoying the same cultural and societal ideas and products as our brethren in the Other Country, I would venture that a certain perception exists there that we’re more or less ‘mooching off’ of the creations brought to the table there, without adding much of any significance ourselves. Is this any one person’s fault? Not really. It’s much the same as Seiya’s example of American vs. Brazilian Star Trek fans. Certainly there’s going to be some down there in Brazil, and who knows, maybe they’re even as nuts about the franchise as some of us here? Taking into account that Star Trek was created here, however, are we going to look at their fan culture with the same regard as we look at ours here, in the States? Probably not. Without attempting to be unfairly judgemental, the average U.S. Trekkie would probably assume that the Brazilian Trekkie isn’t as knowledgeable and/or committed, simply because the franchise was created here. It most likely wouldn’t even be a conscious prejudgement, it would be the simple assumption that because Brazil is so far away, and doesn’t even speak the same language as us, they’re not going to a)understand the franchise in its native speech, and b) be incapable of contributing anything meaningful.
Is that fair? No, of course not. Is it likely? I’d venture to say yes. Without trying to sound like I’ve studied psychology in-depth(I stopped going to the class three weeks in), I would suggest that in the above(dreadfully long, I know)scenario, we would most likely act in that fashion, and most others would do the same. I could be wrong, though, and I would like to hope so, as I personally think a lot would be gained from more definitive and regular contact between all of us.
Sadly, there is a complete unwillingness for Western “otaku” to engage with their Japanese counterparts and vice-versa.
Anyone that has met and grown a friendship with a Japanese otaku can attest to the suspicion of “What the fruit is this nutbag trying to pull?” until you show you worth through your language ability, knowledge of the culture or mutual tests of stamina in lining up at Comiket for a particular circle.
Really it comes down to communication – and it’s very few people from either side that are willing to go to the necessary depths of language-learning depravity to make it happen.
[…] y Otaku World Tags: Japan Stuff, News, Otaku Stuff, Random Acabo de leer un artÃculo muy interesante en Heisei Democracy, en el cual se mencionan las similitudes y diferencia entre los […]
I’m trying to have a conversation with this Shounen Jump reading fujoshi on Mixi. It’s uh. Interesting.
Without purposefully striving for the painful verbosity that seems to be the slavish status quo:
The principle of anime, doujinshi, bishoujo figures, manga, eroge, and all the other nuances of our subculture hinge on the very fact that they are Japanese. And by our very nature as foreigners we ARE leaches, parasites, what have you. We cannot create our own anime, our own manga, because in so doing we only create an intrinsic perversion.
At this point, I would have to beg the question to the wall of text superior: Why? Why strive for some grand assimilation of what are obviously, taking into total the majority of self-professed foreign “otaku”, starkly different subcultures? I would even say, again referring to a majority, that what specifically we Americans have in regards to anime fandom is quite far from being considered a subculture. You have to remember, we here, typing what we type, discussing what we discuss are the minority. The commonwealth of American anime fandom goes to Best Buy every other week and buys a Naruto boxset, creates haphazard clippings of directly downloaded FMA episodes put to a pirated Evanescence mp3 and calls it an AMV, finds childish amusement in having the verbal competency of a Japanese kindergartner; with every utter of the word “baka” hoping to dent the wall that prevents them from actually turning Japanese. In this regard, the Japanese otaku have every right to look at these people as novelties; because that is what they are. There are shades, phases, depths of what an otaku is, can be, and wants to be. And you hope for this protean multiplex to find common ground? Why should we as foreigners even quest for recognition, notoriety, the like? The whole notion can be likened to a pretentious child vying for an adult’s attention. I see no need to change.
Something interesting to get you thinking:
Which types of “otaku” would you want to meet each other of each culture?
This is an interesting question to tackle; because there are several different types of otaku from each side which has it’s own positives and negatives.
We’ll take for example the standard run-of-the-mill “baka-gaijin” otaku over here. I’d go as far to say 90-95% of the entire “otaku” populus over here is made up of this type; thus painting the most honest picture of us…Of course the consequence of this is, the most honest portrayal of us could be “Omg i <3 azns, i think naruto is kawaii and that u r baka for not leiking japanese animes ^_^”. I originally wrote this next line starting ‘this is obviously a charicature..’ but, sadly; it’s really not. We have the “cream of the crop” type of otaku here too; those who lurk the chans; develop and interest in specific topics of the “otaku” umbrella; Touhou(of which a large portion of us seem interested in) and Touhou derivative works, Eroges, VNs, Doujinshi, Arrange music, PVC models/figs, Gunpla etc..
The weirdest part about the latter type of ‘otaku’ would be the fact that we (hey look I went from 3rd to 1st person) often get annoyed at those who might mimic the Japanese, or ‘try too hard to be Otaku’, which is kind of ironic; though our defense may be “we may be similar, but we got to this state our own way”.
If this is true, if we really did become so similar by ourselves; then you realize the only difference between us is the language barrier and the availability of physical goods for purchase (LOL_PIRACY etc). It’s the most obvious answer but it seems to me to be the best one; language prevents us. 4chan is just the english 2ch; on which we debate the same issues of great and meaningful importance as which are dicussed on 2ch. Proof of this is the existence of the middle-men who know enough moon to translated requested materials on places like /jp/, such as Saya no Uta and the latest (goddamn) niseMIDIdoronokai book.
The 5% (or less of which) fall under this type of otaku over here; would be able to get pissed off at the same crap on the same intellectual level of the avid VIPPER- both a reassuring and disturbing thought…And that is more than likely the reason why no major effort has been made; because the “upper-crust” are often too bitter and pissed off at everything everywhere to care about their foreign counterparts; the milling about and making oneself look like an idiot can be well enough accomplished by SasukeKun487@narutofan.com etc…
inb4 this is posted on a rage thread on /jp/.
lolnarutoxD.
FSfan: I don’t see the article as asking why don’t these two groups assimilate, but why don’t they even bother to make a connection. A lot of of it has to do with language and culture, yes, but as Seiya says, it’s more about people being willing to at least try to make an effort. Something positive might not happen, but at least there was an attempt. :P
I mean hell, we at least have the starting point of both doing variations of the same hobby.
Well, at least it’s nice to see a thoughtful, drawn-out discussion, instead of the flame wars one might expect from debate on a subject like this! Going under the assumption that we(as a whole) simply aren’t up to the standards and/or ‘sophistication’, for lack of a better(verbiose) term, what does one take forward into developing a relationship with one of our foreign brethren?
If our fandom, such as it is, has the potential to invite such scorn as mentioned above, then we fall into the situation of a first grader trying to get into the high schooler’s football club, with the results pretty much the same as might be expected. Which pretty much sucks, I’ve gotta say. How would one go about overcoming that perception?
You mentioned 2chan vs 4chan over the Gurren Lagann thing. Well, I remember one time when /a/ invaded 2chan and then they came and started posting on our board. At first there were insults being thrown back and forth and a whole lot of flaming and silliness but eventually we started actually talking with them as best we could through a couple of people who were translating. Basically it was us asking them a ton of questions about what shows they liked and them laughing at the silly gaijins but it was pretty cool regardless and lasted for hours. The funniest part had to be when /a/ shared its love of Jojo’s and then they got all confused about why we were saying that Araki (the mangaka) was moe. Yeah, obviously /a/’s memes and and jokes didn’t translate too well.
Of course I’m not saying that actually did anything to help otaku relationships but it was a lot of fun. Just thought I’d point out a more positive example of 4chan/2chan contact.
Personally I have seen the cultural exchange on a personal level like Seiya did. But hey, that must count for something. I think anything bigger is just asking too much simply because that’s not who we are.
However, a lack of systematic recognition of oversea fans for Japan (I think everyone outside of Japan knows …everyone else) beyond the lip service may be part of the reason why doing anime business with Japan was so retarded for so long. But, hey, there were gaijins in Otaku no Video, and that’s hella old. And then there were things like that one DiGi Charat movie and Excel Saga way before we get to Genshiken.
>> We aren’t making our own anime or manga (and don’t nitpick me with OEL nonsense, we’re really not)
I’m confused at this statement. It seems like a non-statement to make if you discount OEL and things like that, being direct (and reasonably profitable) counterexamples.
Personally an overly narrow or purist definition of these things doesn’t do anyone any favors in the context of this topic.
>>omo
I don’t mean to be insulting to devotees of OEL manga (which I’m sure exist somewhere) but speaking subjectively in my capacity as an otaku, this stuff is not part of the universe of things that I keep up with and care about. I’m not saying it never could be, just that as of today it most definitely isn’t. I don’t think I’m alone in this respect, but I’m prepared to be corrected.
I also don’t mean to be overly purist (well, maybe a bit) but regardless of how profitable OEL goods are, I fail to see how they’re relevant to what I consider to be the problem at hand. I don’t really want to get into a tedious semantic argument over what is and isn’t “manga” simply because what people choose to call this stuff is of just about as little interest to me as the stuff itself.
All I’m trying to convey is that being an otaku is not like being a “music fan” or other hobbies where people are reasonably likely to be focused on works produced in their own native locale. If you introduce yourself as an otaku, I feel justified in assuming that you’re interested in works that were produced in a fairly specific place, although obviously not exclusively so.
There may very well come a time when that changes, but I think that’s a topic for another day.
It’s actually thanks to Heisei Democracy that I was able to make contact with Japanese otaku a few years ago.
A now semi-defunct Ogiue fansite called Ogilove had been writing about Shingo’s Genshiken chapter reviews, and asked aloud if there are any foreign Ogiue fans. I responded, and began hanging out in their chatroom and on their oekaki boards, and exchanging information about fandom in Japan and the US. They even sent me a doujin they put together, and it’s one of the treasures of my collection. Eventually the site went down and it seems the oekaki boards it linked to aren’t nearly as popular as they used to be. I should still probably try to re-establish contact with them, as I regret not keeping up with them all this time.
There’s a major roadblock in trying to interact with Japanese fans, and that roadblock is more of a barrier called language. How many fans on either side are able to make make that successful leap? For every Hitoshi Doi out there, we have perhaps hundreds with either no English ability or no confidence in their English ability. And I can’t think of any good opposites for Hitoshi Doi, but pretend I did. It might also be that we’re no longer so desperate for anime and manga that we can push aside our fears and talk to Japan just to get a VHS of random shows they recorded for the hell of it.
If words don’t work, maybe we can communicate by other means, such as art.
>>Seiya
I think a place you might want to start looking into is the American release of Faust. It’s got a few interesting articles. One directly relates to this topic, and at least one other brushes upon it.
However I think when you start to slice things too narrowly you miss opportunities to see convergence of creations and intercultural cross-breeding. If you don’t count OELs, for example, then you may have to stand on a definition of manga that is too narrow to allow cross-cultural works, and defeats the question before you can even ask it legitimately.
>>omo
I regret having said anything at all about OEL, I was just trying to illustrate a (pretty unrelated) point.
If there are substantive examples of OEL manga making a notable economic and cultural impact in the Other Country, or if there is a phenomenon of otaku in this country abstaining from anything that is not OEL, then those would be relevant to this discussion and I would love to hear them.
Otherwise, as much as I’m all in favor of cross-cultural this and inter-cultural that, this has gotten painfully off topic.
Apologies for going off topic—I dunno about economical impact, but these artists are working pretty hard on leaving their mark in the japanese manga scene:
http://www.felipesmith.com/mbq/ <— Felipe Smith is currently drawing a serial for Morning 2
http://blackmoontides.com/ <— grand prize winner of the Morning international competition.
doujin-wise, http://kurot.deviantart.com <— A rather popular Reborn doujinka, recently hit wall space at fuyucomi.
And I’m sure there are many more I’m forgetting.
What’s your topic? How notable oversea fans are to the Japanese? Or how much of this visual cultural stuff has been exported from the Other Country, reprocessed, and now the Other Country is importing it?
Both are ways to measure your premise I think.
Because before we go the distance and talk about mutual reminder of shame or anything like that, your observation has to have some real, factual basis. As I see it, there are plenty of shameless people all over to make things work. It’s a different question as to if you and I should care all that much beyond a personal context, and why we should or should not care about how fans live in Japan or how Japanese fans care or care less about Americans or British or Brazilian fans.
But as creators, they do care and they recognize that there’s more to all of this than what they see in Japan. I think that’s why people like Shokotan gave it a nod at all.
I think…. we’ve gotten a little too serious about this. Pocky, anyone?
I can’t shake the feeling that there are more sinister circumstances at work here
Might a certain conspiracy be involved? :3
omo>
“But, hey, there were gaijins in Otaku no Video, and that’s hella old. And then there were things like that one DiGi Charat movie and Excel Saga way before we get to Genshiken.”
Yeah, and also in Lucky Star, Azumanga Daioh and a million other things. And they’re all portrayed as freaky weirdos – that’s the equivalent of someone saying “Hey, I like Japanese people. Look at Arnold from Happy Days! Don’t forget Jerry Lewis’ character in Hardly Working.”
I don’t know HOW you can take those characters as a source of pride – as a foreigner who DOES like anime and DOES speak almost fluent Japanese I am DEEPLY offended by those portrayals which only serve to further the image of the Western anime or manga or Japanese culture fan as a complete freak, in the eyes of the Japanese anime watching/manga reading audience.
Basically, there is no international brotherhood of Otaku. Western fans generally don’t relate to the sub-culture in the same way as Japanese ones. The majority of Western fans are generally sub-culturally illiterate because of the language barrier, geographical barrier & the fact that most Western fans have no money and thus will only voraciously devour free stuff that gets put (illegally) on the internet through scanlations and fansubs.
Seiya>
“And likewise, it’s only natural for them to see us as obnoxious and boorish parasites, latching on to an “exotic†culture without ever developing a real understanding or appreciation remaining hopelessly out of touch and making up for what we lack in expertise using pure volume.”
Yeah it is only natural for them to see us like that because that is 90% of Western fans are. What are the anime or manga household names in Japan? Unless you mentioned Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan or Doraemon then you ARE culturally ignorant.
It also doesn’t help that the most visible Western fans have no shame about behaving in the most debasing fashion possible, especially if there’s a chance of getting on TV (looking at you, participants on “TV Champion – Foreign Otaku King” episode, AppleMilk & Magibon).
I just breezed through the above comments, but in a nutshell: Language and cultural differences.
I’m friends with a few of my otaku classmates (Japanese), but we became friends before we found that out. Hardly have any otaku discussions because our fields of interest don’t really overlap.
@shipon
While foreigners have largely never had and still don’t have a favorable place in the historic or contemporary xenophobic Japanese psyche, you can’t accurately derive a country’s, a society’s view on the subject through conjecture based on their media. Making reference to another culture as a simile would do little to underline this point; it would only serve to obfuscate the singularity of Japanese culture. Obviously, standing here more than half a century after WWII, opinions of the foreigner have lightened if not been wholly reversed taking into account the perspective of that time period. Though the Japanese at large may put on a face of appreciation or good gesture when inwardly mocking, it stands to reason that today Japan is one of the worlds greatest powers, politically, economically, and industrially. In their presence on the world stage, do you really think that the current Prime Minister curses the foreign blood he deals with on a daily basis? Of course, I could be wrong and he could certainly do that but I believe the reality has more to do with the author, the director, the artist’s portrayal of what THEY believe to be truth for the Japanese people as a whole. In fact, the American’s role is now an archetype in anime and manga. The vast majority of Japanese have no divination of what an American might be like, but the image of a hamburger-loving, cowboy hat-wearing, busty blonde in a red white and blue bikini (reference anyone?) lends itself to the image if not only because its that very image that has permeated anime and manga. Of those creator’s with a brain, they know this to be an inaccurate depiction. Something closer to reality though, a weeaboo for example, is less understandable. For this reason too, you have that “freak” image of a Western fan of anime or manga. They don’t understand us, and we, the majority, don’t understand them. Really, its only the hedgehog’s dilemma played out on a world scale. You shouldn’t be “DEEPLY offended” by any portrayal as a “freaky weirdo” assuming that you don’t admit to being one and don’t count yourself among the “90% of Western fans” who are.
The language barrier really is immense.
I think it’s easy for bilinguals to forget that.
Without familiarity with the language, it’s hard to build familiarity in general.
I feel shokotan is just riding the “otaku culture is popular also abroad trend” that is clearly getting stronger in the last few months (ex. Patrick “OTAKU USA” has been featured in many Japanese mags recently). And I think she will push even more after not being selected for the NHK Kouhaku Uta Gassen (but probably that’s just me not loving idols who are not so much into akiba culture but still using otaku culture to be popular in a particular circle)…
Consider foreigners/gaijin all the same is the same misconception made by Japanese. An american otaku doesn’t communciate so much with a German or a French one. Is there a strong communication between different nationalities otakus?! If for example french otakus don’t communicate with US otakus cause the language barrier it’s pretty obvious why the Japanese and “gaijin” don’t mix up so much… beside the language barrier, (otaku) comunication is based on information exchange. If you got something to exchange, and you speak a little bit Japanese, I think it’s pretty easy to communicate with Japanese otakus. Even Japanese otaku don’t mix up if their interests don’t overlap (and no: being a generic anime fan is not enough) so I don’t see anything strange in the fact that there is not so much interaction between Japanese and not-Japanese otakus.
Shokotan quote:
“Americans are really great at making weapons and stuff†and wondering “How can they carry all that stuff around??â€.
@ big cosplay events in Japan like Comiket it’s illegal to carry weapons reproductions…
FSFan>
While foreigners have largely never had and still don’t have a favorable place in the historic or contemporary xenophobic Japanese psyche, you can’t accurately derive a country’s, a society’s view on the subject through conjecture based on their media.
No, I base it on years of living in Japan in a regional city where using English wasn’t an option, years of attending events both in Japan and in Western countries and the experiences of myself and my friends (both Japanese and foreign).
The language barrier really is immense.
I think it’s easy for bilinguals to forget that.
shipon:
>> I don’t know HOW you can take those characters as a source of pride
LOL, you’re probably not supposed to. Much like any of the interviewees on Otaku no Video. But I guess you just have too much shame to understand where I’m coming from. Or where Shokotan is coming from XD
Not that is a bad thing.
But before you talk about household names in anime, the general impression of gaijin on Japanese mainstream media very much so parallels with the caricatures you listed in anime. Maybe a better question to ask is do those references mean squat or what. Because those are just lip service in some sense.
Frankie:
I socialize with international fans over the internet. I’d say easily 30% or so of the people I talk/discuss with on the net are not based in the US, where I am. But at the same time there are definitely local social groups both here and anywhere else, that are cut off from some “international brotherhood” or whatever. So I don’t know how much of that matters.
[…] again, I was pleased to find a very interesting article in the digest mail from the group. Entitled On the International Brotherhood of Otaku, it tries to explain the paradox that belies the constitution of what could be seen as a truly […]
Don’t be so serious when discussing……keep it sporting and cool…….its true language has no barrier in deed.
Yes…Americans know how to make weapons, guns, etc. I guess that’s what we have to know in order to keep the world safe from people like Hussein (don’t worry…I never supported the Iraq war).
Quotes of General Patton