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	<title>Comments on: 2009: The Untranslatables</title>
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	<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/</link>
	<description>Modern Visual Culture Digest</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 12:41:50 -0800</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
		<title>By: bhajans</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-140997</link>
		<dc:creator>bhajans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 20:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-140997</guid>
		<description>For every 4 hours of gameplay you’ll spend at least 1 of those hours traipsing around the theater looking for LIPS choices. -----&gt; very well said..its absolutely true my friend</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For every 4 hours of gameplay you’ll spend at least 1 of those hours traipsing around the theater looking for LIPS choices. &#8212;&#8211;&gt; very well said..its absolutely true my friend</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: THAT Animeblog - Preemptive ABA 2009 Nominations</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-135249</link>
		<dc:creator>THAT Animeblog - Preemptive ABA 2009 Nominations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-135249</guid>
		<description>[...] go make a music blog if there&#8217;s no plausible readership or niche there. It&#8217;s like that Heisei Democracy post where there&#8217;s this manga cafe in San Francisco. It can&#8217;t work because they&#8217;re [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] go make a music blog if there&#8217;s no plausible readership or niche there. It&#8217;s like that Heisei Democracy post where there&#8217;s this manga cafe in San Francisco. It can&#8217;t work because they&#8217;re [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Nayuki</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134867</link>
		<dc:creator>Nayuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 22:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134867</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Seiya

Sure, feel free to contact me if you&#039;d like to further discuss. Or maybe there will be some follow-up post in regards to doujinshi on this site. I&#039;m RSSing you guys, so I look forward to it. Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;Seiya</p>
<p>Sure, feel free to contact me if you&#8217;d like to further discuss. Or maybe there will be some follow-up post in regards to doujinshi on this site. I&#8217;m RSSing you guys, so I look forward to it. Cheers!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Seiya</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134844</link>
		<dc:creator>Seiya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134844</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Nayuki

I really appreciate this added perspective. This may require further discussion.

&gt;&gt;blacklotus

Amen, brother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>Nayuki</p>
<p>I really appreciate this added perspective. This may require further discussion.</p>
<p>>>blacklotus</p>
<p>Amen, brother.</p>
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		<title>By: blacklotus</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134840</link>
		<dc:creator>blacklotus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 19:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134840</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s times like this that I really missed Shingo and his insights. He actually went thru the process of selling a dojinshi at a comiket. His inputs here will have been most wonderful. sigh...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s times like this that I really missed Shingo and his insights. He actually went thru the process of selling a dojinshi at a comiket. His inputs here will have been most wonderful. sigh&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nayuki</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134665</link>
		<dc:creator>Nayuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:49:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134665</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll use this site&#039;s post to pull figures from for the Japanese side of doujinshi costs and pricing figures. I am not sure how accurate it is, but let&#039;s say we use that as the start.
http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/11/27/doujin-work/

So doujinshis are sold at approx 550 yen each ($5.50 USD). The cost to print each doujin is 300 yen each ($3.00 USD). They also do a huge print run of 10,000 doujins. And the rest they do not sell at a particular event, they can sell at consignment via shops. I believe this model enables Japanese artists to create doujinshis cheaply and so widely.

One of my friends that did a doujinshi, I think she did a print run of 400 and it cost around $5 per book. I think she sells her doujins around $10-15 each. However I believe the hardest part is trying to sell all the books she has printed, break even, and make a profit compared to the cost. North American convention attendance are also very small. 43,000 in AX (USA) vs. 550,000 in Comiket (Japan).

From what I have heard from several friends also is that printing for doujinshis is very cheap in Japan. The printing technology is really advanced and affordable. In North America, you need to do a great deal of research to find a decent printer that will print at an affordable price (and small enough print run).

So right now there are alot of factors working against the North American doujin artist compared to the Japanese doujin artists. Perhaps as the North American doujin market grows over time as well as printing costs coming down, then more artists will do doujins. Right now, I see doujins as fairly risky in terms of returns as I see it as being difficult to break even on (both print costs and time). Hopefully this might change over time and more artists will embrace this medium. For now we&#039;ll have to wait and see (being the pragmatic artist as I am).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll use this site&#8217;s post to pull figures from for the Japanese side of doujinshi costs and pricing figures. I am not sure how accurate it is, but let&#8217;s say we use that as the start.<br />
<a href="http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/11/27/doujin-work/" rel="nofollow">http://zepy.momotato.com/2008/11/27/doujin-work/</a></p>
<p>So doujinshis are sold at approx 550 yen each ($5.50 USD). The cost to print each doujin is 300 yen each ($3.00 USD). They also do a huge print run of 10,000 doujins. And the rest they do not sell at a particular event, they can sell at consignment via shops. I believe this model enables Japanese artists to create doujinshis cheaply and so widely.</p>
<p>One of my friends that did a doujinshi, I think she did a print run of 400 and it cost around $5 per book. I think she sells her doujins around $10-15 each. However I believe the hardest part is trying to sell all the books she has printed, break even, and make a profit compared to the cost. North American convention attendance are also very small. 43,000 in AX (USA) vs. 550,000 in Comiket (Japan).</p>
<p>From what I have heard from several friends also is that printing for doujinshis is very cheap in Japan. The printing technology is really advanced and affordable. In North America, you need to do a great deal of research to find a decent printer that will print at an affordable price (and small enough print run).</p>
<p>So right now there are alot of factors working against the North American doujin artist compared to the Japanese doujin artists. Perhaps as the North American doujin market grows over time as well as printing costs coming down, then more artists will do doujins. Right now, I see doujins as fairly risky in terms of returns as I see it as being difficult to break even on (both print costs and time). Hopefully this might change over time and more artists will embrace this medium. For now we&#8217;ll have to wait and see (being the pragmatic artist as I am).</p>
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		<title>By: Seiya</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134649</link>
		<dc:creator>Seiya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 04:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134649</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;ZeroGFrame

Although I do try to enforce a policy of not &quot;dumbing down&quot; terminology, in an effort to encourage people to learn any new terms they might not be familiar with, as zalas pointed out these terms are actually proper names, and as such I&#039;m not in a position to translate them even if I wanted to. Next time, some added links may be in order though.

&gt;&gt;hirohisa4president

I don&#039;t doubt there&#039;s at least a decent (no pun intended) market for Kojika, the reason it&#039;s not getting released is fear of a backlash over the content, plain and simple.

&gt;&gt;Nayuki

This is really interesting. I wasn&#039;t aware there was such a premium on this kind of publishing. I wonder how much of that is just logistics vs. supply and demand. I also don&#039;t actually have a concrete sense of how much publishing doujinshi costs in the Other Country, but I&#039;m sure they&#039;re not selling at a loss. What sort of volume are we talking about here? I&#039;m sure the cost per unit comes down if you&#039;re printing several hundred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>ZeroGFrame</p>
<p>Although I do try to enforce a policy of not &#8220;dumbing down&#8221; terminology, in an effort to encourage people to learn any new terms they might not be familiar with, as zalas pointed out these terms are actually proper names, and as such I&#8217;m not in a position to translate them even if I wanted to. Next time, some added links may be in order though.</p>
<p>>>hirohisa4president</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt there&#8217;s at least a decent (no pun intended) market for Kojika, the reason it&#8217;s not getting released is fear of a backlash over the content, plain and simple.</p>
<p>>>Nayuki</p>
<p>This is really interesting. I wasn&#8217;t aware there was such a premium on this kind of publishing. I wonder how much of that is just logistics vs. supply and demand. I also don&#8217;t actually have a concrete sense of how much publishing doujinshi costs in the Other Country, but I&#8217;m sure they&#8217;re not selling at a loss. What sort of volume are we talking about here? I&#8217;m sure the cost per unit comes down if you&#8217;re printing several hundred.</p>
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		<title>By: Nayuki</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134606</link>
		<dc:creator>Nayuki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:04:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134606</guid>
		<description>I am an artist that does several artist alleys in conventions across North America. The issue with the lack of doujinshis is the exorbitant cost of printing and producing them here. It may cost at least $5 per book (depending on the quantity printed), and in order to make back the cost and some profit, the artist would have to sell for at least $10-15. I don&#039;t believe there is enough of a market in North America that is willing to spend their money on a doujinshi unless it is priced lower, and is a doujinshi that is targeted towards a series they are interested in. Several of my friends in the artist alleys create their own doujinshis, and they don&#039;t contain any 18+ content, so I believe it is possible to create doujinshi in North America sans the risque content. But the costs of printing, the libelous culture of America (some AAs have already been threatened of closure for selling of fanworks), and the lack of audience does not make a strong case for more fan artists to jump into creating doujinshis yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am an artist that does several artist alleys in conventions across North America. The issue with the lack of doujinshis is the exorbitant cost of printing and producing them here. It may cost at least $5 per book (depending on the quantity printed), and in order to make back the cost and some profit, the artist would have to sell for at least $10-15. I don&#8217;t believe there is enough of a market in North America that is willing to spend their money on a doujinshi unless it is priced lower, and is a doujinshi that is targeted towards a series they are interested in. Several of my friends in the artist alleys create their own doujinshis, and they don&#8217;t contain any 18+ content, so I believe it is possible to create doujinshi in North America sans the risque content. But the costs of printing, the libelous culture of America (some AAs have already been threatened of closure for selling of fanworks), and the lack of audience does not make a strong case for more fan artists to jump into creating doujinshis yet.</p>
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		<title>By: hirohisa4president</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134567</link>
		<dc:creator>hirohisa4president</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 23:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134567</guid>
		<description>What I find odd about kodomo no jikan that japanese importers seem to have requests for it and it seems to sell for them pretty well? so it must have an audience somewhere in u.s. right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find odd about kodomo no jikan that japanese importers seem to have requests for it and it seems to sell for them pretty well? so it must have an audience somewhere in u.s. right?</p>
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		<title>By: zalas</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134540</link>
		<dc:creator>zalas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 22:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134540</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;ZeroGFrame
Touhou Project is a series of (mostly) bullet-curtain 2D vertical shoot-em-up games and has achieved massive popularity amongst Japanese otaku (at least on the Internet).  It has spawned a ton of various derivative works, such as those IOSYS flash movies (Marisa stole a precious thing, etc.)

And you can read all about Kodomo no Jikan at http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/industry-comments/2007-05-29/jason-deangelis-nymphet ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;ZeroGFrame<br />
Touhou Project is a series of (mostly) bullet-curtain 2D vertical shoot-em-up games and has achieved massive popularity amongst Japanese otaku (at least on the Internet).  It has spawned a ton of various derivative works, such as those IOSYS flash movies (Marisa stole a precious thing, etc.)</p>
<p>And you can read all about Kodomo no Jikan at <a href="http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/industry-comments/2007-05-29/jason-deangelis-nymphet" rel="nofollow">http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/industry-comments/2007-05-29/jason-deangelis-nymphet</a> ;)</p>
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		<title>By: ZeroGFrame</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134506</link>
		<dc:creator>ZeroGFrame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 20:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134506</guid>
		<description>Really interesting discussion, but please forgive my ignorance (and rustiness on Japanese, it&#039;s been a few years since I used my 2+ years of study)... an awful lot of nihongo fan-terms seem to be getting thrown around a lot here. And while I can try to guess what some mean, there are still a few I don&#039;t follow. I can&#039;t be the only person reading this who doesn&#039;t know what &quot;touhou&quot; and &quot;kodomo no jikan&quot; are. (Yes, I understand teh exact meaning of &quot;kodomo no jikan&quot; but the words don&#039;t mean much to me in context). Could anyone enlighten me? Or should I Google all this stuff?  ^_^

By the way, Seiya, I wanted to say I really appreciate you breathing some life back into this site. It&#039;s one of my favorites to regularly check.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really interesting discussion, but please forgive my ignorance (and rustiness on Japanese, it&#8217;s been a few years since I used my 2+ years of study)&#8230; an awful lot of nihongo fan-terms seem to be getting thrown around a lot here. And while I can try to guess what some mean, there are still a few I don&#8217;t follow. I can&#8217;t be the only person reading this who doesn&#8217;t know what &#8220;touhou&#8221; and &#8220;kodomo no jikan&#8221; are. (Yes, I understand teh exact meaning of &#8220;kodomo no jikan&#8221; but the words don&#8217;t mean much to me in context). Could anyone enlighten me? Or should I Google all this stuff?  ^_^</p>
<p>By the way, Seiya, I wanted to say I really appreciate you breathing some life back into this site. It&#8217;s one of my favorites to regularly check.</p>
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		<title>By: Erica Friedman</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134390</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica Friedman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:39:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134390</guid>
		<description>Some of these are simply a matter of numbers. Not enough people who want the particular product or service exist here on western shores. And very often if enough people *want* it, not enough people would *buy* it to make it worth a distributor&#039;s time and money.

Other products and services have tangential &quot;morality&quot; issues which would make it - at best - exceedingly problematic to implement. And others rely on a completely different concept of copyright. Recently, a number of Japanese copyright holders have been cracking down on certain egregious abuses of their IP, so it&#039;s not entirely that they do *nothing* about it.

I expect this current financial crisis to cut the western anime and manga industry to the quick, so there will be a lot of room for growth and change when it all blows over. And the audience is changing, rapidly. in five years the Beyblade kids will discover something else and it&#039;ll be the Next Big Thing and some of them, will be the next SJ seres consumer.

In ten years, there&#039;ll be a bigger audience and therefore more of a market. One hopes.

Cheers,

Erica

Hungry for Yuri? have some Okazu!
http://okazu.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of these are simply a matter of numbers. Not enough people who want the particular product or service exist here on western shores. And very often if enough people *want* it, not enough people would *buy* it to make it worth a distributor&#8217;s time and money.</p>
<p>Other products and services have tangential &#8220;morality&#8221; issues which would make it &#8211; at best &#8211; exceedingly problematic to implement. And others rely on a completely different concept of copyright. Recently, a number of Japanese copyright holders have been cracking down on certain egregious abuses of their IP, so it&#8217;s not entirely that they do *nothing* about it.</p>
<p>I expect this current financial crisis to cut the western anime and manga industry to the quick, so there will be a lot of room for growth and change when it all blows over. And the audience is changing, rapidly. in five years the Beyblade kids will discover something else and it&#8217;ll be the Next Big Thing and some of them, will be the next SJ seres consumer.</p>
<p>In ten years, there&#8217;ll be a bigger audience and therefore more of a market. One hopes.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Erica</p>
<p>Hungry for Yuri? have some Okazu!<br />
<a href="http://okazu.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://okazu.blogspot.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: MangaBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Roundup of roundups</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134378</link>
		<dc:creator>MangaBlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Roundup of roundups</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134378</guid>
		<description>[...] at Heisei Democracy (warning: NSFW!), Seiya lists ten Japanese things that don&#8217;t translate too well, including doujinshi and Kodomo no [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] at Heisei Democracy (warning: NSFW!), Seiya lists ten Japanese things that don&#8217;t translate too well, including doujinshi and Kodomo no [...]</p>
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		<title>By: unangbangkay</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134164</link>
		<dc:creator>unangbangkay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jan 2009 00:02:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134164</guid>
		<description>light beat me to it, but yes, rumors abound that SakuTai may finally make it overseas.

But I do have to say that there ARE reasons as to why it&#039;s taken so goddamn long to do it (if it actually does).

For one, the bishoujo game elements are so much more prevalent than the &quot;regular&quot; game elements in Sakura Taisen. For every 4 hours of gameplay you&#039;ll spend at least 1 of those hours traipsing around the theater looking for LIPS choices. Of its gameplay melding, SakuTai is bishoujo game first, tactical game second. Most of the other &quot;curiously Japanese&quot; games that have made it here are usually the other way around.

There&#039;s hope, though. NIS America and Atlus have done a great deal in making the environment less hostile to quirky Japanese games, and SEGA did release Valkyria Chronicles AND Yakuza 2 (with the latter being Japanese-only voice).

I can only wonder as to what they&#039;ll do to the localization. It&#039;ll be quite the task to properly localize a game that&#039;s mostly talking and reading, esp. with regard to voice track.

Also, how well could such a &quot;weird&quot; game do when it&#039;d be released at roughly the end of the PS2&#039;s lifespan (and probably starting with Episode 5 to boot)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>light beat me to it, but yes, rumors abound that SakuTai may finally make it overseas.</p>
<p>But I do have to say that there ARE reasons as to why it&#8217;s taken so goddamn long to do it (if it actually does).</p>
<p>For one, the bishoujo game elements are so much more prevalent than the &#8220;regular&#8221; game elements in Sakura Taisen. For every 4 hours of gameplay you&#8217;ll spend at least 1 of those hours traipsing around the theater looking for LIPS choices. Of its gameplay melding, SakuTai is bishoujo game first, tactical game second. Most of the other &#8220;curiously Japanese&#8221; games that have made it here are usually the other way around.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s hope, though. NIS America and Atlus have done a great deal in making the environment less hostile to quirky Japanese games, and SEGA did release Valkyria Chronicles AND Yakuza 2 (with the latter being Japanese-only voice).</p>
<p>I can only wonder as to what they&#8217;ll do to the localization. It&#8217;ll be quite the task to properly localize a game that&#8217;s mostly talking and reading, esp. with regard to voice track.</p>
<p>Also, how well could such a &#8220;weird&#8221; game do when it&#8217;d be released at roughly the end of the PS2&#8217;s lifespan (and probably starting with Episode 5 to boot)?</p>
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		<title>By: hirohisa4president</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2009/01/03/2009-the-untranslatables/comment-page-1/#comment-134127</link>
		<dc:creator>hirohisa4president</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 22:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/?p=9017#comment-134127</guid>
		<description>@seiya you mean the stuff in the magazines like tech+gian etc. not being released? 

And about #7 If i recall Sony has said they wouldn&#039;t allow any 18+ games on their u.s. consoles so until sony u.s. will allow publishers to even release a/o games then having them from japan isnt going to happen,but the silver lining is ps3 u.s. &amp; japan are same region so importing from japan an a/o rated ps3 game will still work on u.s. ps3 so the rule is sorta undermined ^.^;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@seiya you mean the stuff in the magazines like tech+gian etc. not being released? </p>
<p>And about #7 If i recall Sony has said they wouldn&#8217;t allow any 18+ games on their u.s. consoles so until sony u.s. will allow publishers to even release a/o games then having them from japan isnt going to happen,but the silver lining is ps3 u.s. &amp; japan are same region so importing from japan an a/o rated ps3 game will still work on u.s. ps3 so the rule is sorta undermined ^.^;</p>
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