Sculptor Toushirou of circle Cobra-Kai is known for his epic large-scale works, usually featuring characters with voluptuous builds and his trademark heavy-lidded eyes. When I first saw the rough draft of his resin rendition of Fate/stay night’s Saber at last Wonder Festival I momentarily didn’t recognize it as his work; she seems so far afield from what he normally sculpts. But now that the kit is complete it’s apparent that it’s none other than his genius hand at operation, and this is a kit that made one of the biggest impressions at yesterday’s WHF Ariake 18. See below for a full castoff [ERO] gallery:
Saber
by
Toushirou
(唐詩郎)
Photography was difficult given the minimal lighting conditions, but with a bit of tweaking in Photoshop I think some of these shots came out alright. This shoot was early on in the day and I hadn’t quite gotten into the right mindset for properly documenting multiple angles; in hindsight I should’ve gotten some pictures from above as well. Memo to self for the next event.
Unless Yamato went absolutely crazy I can’t think of anyone other than Daiki Kougyou who would consider doing this in PVC… here’s hoping they decide to take the plunge.
hail to the king.
Me want this!!!…If some company decides to release this in PVC, I hope they do it full cast off and not partial….gosh, this is nice.
All hail to the naked king, Saber!
Hmm, a nekkid Saber looks awkward to me, but I gotta hand it to Cobra Kai for the excellent sculpting and details…
Jeebus.. Luckily my boss wasnt around, or i might get PROMOTED >_<
While the the figure packs details and realistic body proportions, saber’s eyes kind of not to my liking.
Either there’s something wrong with my vision or Sabre’s clothes seem rather ill-fitting. Makes her look kinda fat.
Her expression is a nice touch, however.
Am I the only one here that has trouble believing that she would be capable of swinging that sword around with those chopstick arms?
I usually love Cobra-Kai’s stuff, but this Saber kit doesn’t do it for me for some reason. :(
to clarify my earlier comment - “hail to the king” is referencing Toushirou’s amazing skill and not Saber’s status before being drawn into the Holy Grail War. Not that anyone cares but… Oh and I can’t believe that anyone cares if she would be truly capable of swinging the sword. Of Course I also can’t believe anyone would dislike this piece or that they would really not take the castoff procedure for clothes of that magnitude into account before commenting on how big/fat they look. But to each there own… I guess.
Wow! Are the silver strips covering parts their doing, or yours? That fig is well sculpted and shaped.
>>FMPhoenixHawk
The silver bits were put there as censorship by the circle for display purposes; I’m guess it’s just some tinfoil they taped on. A pity they didn’t leave her uncovered, but with kids around I can see why they did it… here’s hoping for a PVC release that can be reviewed fully in the privacy of ones own apartment.
I can guess that it’s either going to be too expensive for it to be made into PVC, or nobody will want to release a castoff Saber. There’s no fully naked PVC of Saber yet. Maybe they won’t allow it?
If they *did* allow it, I’d buy it! ^_~
>>>the_pseudokings
Well, my last comment was an indirect way of saying her arms look way to skinny to me. I don’t know, it’s just that Saber was never that detailed looking in either the eroge or the anime, so when Toushirou gave her a mature face with a skinny frame like that, it just seems off to me.
Plus, she looks chunky/butch with the armor on. You can’t win with either option.
Just an interesting piece of information: Apparently only 15 kits were sold at the convention. 9 of them ended up on YJA (i.e. Scalpers).
>>serogane
whatever.
Like I care how many sold, especially considering that it likely has a massive price and not everyone has that kind of coin. Not to mention how daunting to build it would be. That’s like saying ‘blank’ movie is no good because it didn’t make X amount of dollars. Or anime sucks because it doesn’t sell well in Texas (or whatever place). I said to each there own before but I’m taking it back, your wrong. Shingo seems to dig it, I dig it, most of the other comments are fairly positive, so you don’t for whatever reason, good for you, but your argument about sales is just too annoyingly mainstream not to retort.
pardon my typo - ‘your wrong’ should have been ‘you’re wrong.’
Hey guys - opinions are fine, there are bound to be disagreements, but let’s agree to disagree and leave it at that, ok? Thanks.
Regarding the kit sales numbers, it’s a sad statistic. Resellers are willing to accept all sorts of abnormal mortifications of the flesh to get to the front of the line for stuff like this. I wish there were some way to keep them away, or for the sculptors to produce on a volume appropriate to demand (probably the better solution).
>>>Shingo
No worries, we’ll keep it civil.
>>>the_pseudokings
Grammar is important and all, but you don’t have to be a stickler about it. I wouldn’t comment on your spelling if it’s not rampant throughout your argument.
You dig it, everyone here digs it, that’s fine and all. Hell, I have no doubt that the majority of fans out there like it. Otherwise it wouldn’t sell for so high on YJA right now (It’s nearing the 200% markup for every single kit). But then again, you did say that prices do not necessarily reflect popularity, no?
The fact that 9 out of 15 people bought the kits only to resell was just an FYI in case you actually wanted to buy one (Since everyone here, you know, like it so much). It was never meant to support my case. Did I misinterpret you, or did you just want to bask in an environment where everyone shares your opinion on things?
Yes I realize that there are sleeper hits that don’t do well in theaters, but they usually do well afterwards in sales (Hence the term, sleeper hit). There’s no denying that how well something sells can reflect quality in a piece of work.
I really wanted to like Saber. You have no idea how excited I was when Toushirou announced the upcoming Saber sculpt on his blog (He purposely hid the picture or made it really impossible to locate, which only heightened my desire for this kit). In the end, it just didn’t deliver for me, so it makes me angry for having built up all this expectation for nothing.
I don’t dislike it just for “Whatever reason”. I have provided reasons for my dislike of this kit.
Call me crazy, but I just don’t see the appeal in such a child-like body. Her mature face only serves the purpose of clashing with the body. She doesn’t even look right with her armor on.
Yes I understand that this is only the sculptor’s own interpretation of Saber (Because if every rendition of Saber were the same, it’d be rather boring), but it’s just too far out there for me to like.
>>>Shingo
To be honest, I’m actually a supporter of scalpers, as long as they aren’t too crazy about the markups. I’m a collector of original kits, and since I don’t reside in Japan, my main source of original kits comes from YJA. If scalpers didn’t exist, I wouldn’t be able to collect kits.
I like to consider the markups middleman fees. You know, for bracing the crowds, standing in line, and actually getting your hands on a limited edition kit. Paying 20-50 bucks extra seems fair when you take everything into account. And when I take the kit from the scalper, it’s as if I supported the original sculptor in the first place because the middleman (Scalper) is out of the picture. He/she just paid for me beforehand if you can think of it that way.
In the end, it’s really the person who’s willing to pay the most for their (The scalpers’) services that wins a kit. Yes, 20-50 dollars is definitely putting it lightly; often popular kits end with markups of 200-250%.
>>>the_pseudokings
And if you’re willing to check out the Osiris Aigis page (Same day post as the Toushirou Saber), you will see how I’ve handled people bashing my favorite Aigis kit.
>>serogane
I definitely see where you’re coming from regarding the scalping issue, and I admire your taking the high road in pursuing only legitimate copies of the kits you acquire. It’s easy enough for me to preach that gospel living in a place where I can actually attend the events, but it takes real commitment to uphold that standard from abroad.
That said, it’s still frustrating for those of us who are able to put boots on the ground but are unable to play Saizensen-kun due to logistics, to get there as fast as humanly possible and still find that all of the best kits have been picked up in advance by people intending to resell them.
If the markup is fair, I agree - scalpers do provide a valuable service. And even if it becomes unfair at auction, it’s a pointed reminder of how the market economy works, and that it’s the circles who are the ones losing profit for not producing to meet demand when their kits go for premium prices. Of course the circles are constrained by issues of time, fickleness of the raw material and constraints put on them by IP holders, so even if they wanted to put more units into circulation they often can’t… it’s an inefficient system, but it’s the one we’ve got to live with, isn’t it.
Kudos again for playing by the rules - it’s an awesome thing to do.
Oh yeah, I can definitely understand why they scalp. 8/9 of those Saber auctions ended just now, and they sold within the 73,000 yen to 78,001 yen bracket, with one even selling at 90,000 yen (Guess he/she was afraid it would sell out so he/she went with buy it now). Now I have no idea how much Toushirou sold it for, but I can’t imagine it having sold for much more than 30,000 yen.
I guess my point is, even to me as a collector, this is quite the tempting route from a business perspective (40,000+ yen profit in just two days time).
Yeah, I wonder if the dealers realize this is happening. But then again, even if they were to jack up the prices at the conventions (As a counter-measure), I still think that there’d be people willing to pay insane prices to scalpers on YJA for them.
I mean, you can’t really not sell to a scalper, right? You have no idea what someone who buys your kit is going to do with it. It’s not as easy as refusing to sell to foreigners for fear of the kit being recasted (I see a recasters as another type of scalper, one who rips off many as opposed to one). Perhaps maybe in the end, they prefer scalping to be limited to YJA.
It is unfortunate I know. The average Joe (i.e. Me) can’t possibly afford popular kits on YJA thanks to this practice (Since that’s pretty much all that the scalpers go for anyways).
But then again, it’s a good thing they limit the number of kits a person can buy (Counter-measure, maybe?). Imagine if the first scalper just scooped up all of the kits from one dealer and had a monopoly on it. *Shudder*
*That* would *suck*.
Oh phew, I was worried that maybe my last comment wasn’t civil enough. :)
It’s the rule of the economic jungle - highest bidder wins.
But 1 can always don’t participate in these kind of auctions. And from all the kits released so far, I believe, patience is a virtue. Eventually, Saber should appear in PVC form for mass release.
The same thing happened to the 1/4 Volks Yamamoto. After 2 years, an official completed resin version is actually for sale from Volks.
Cobra’s Anna is also PVCfied, a good surprise since I had doubted she would be.
Cerberus Ignis is also going to be PVCfied - Another good surprise.
So in the end, if one is patient, one can get good figures at reasonable prices.
My take: our desire is limitless, but our real needs are actually few. If we focus on our unfulfilled desires (marrying Cindy Crawford, owning a Ferrari Tessarossa or Megahouse’s Kiyori), we will be disappointed. But if we focus on our small victories (surviving army bootcamp, being alive, managing to get Cobra-Kai’s works without spending a fortune), we will be contented.
At the end of the day, collecting figures is a hobby, and should help us relieve stress. Instead, if we end up getting stressed because of missing out on certain figures, or spending our last dime on a figure, I think one should stop this hobby immediately as it has become unhealthy.
Peace. 8)
>>blacklotus
Your take is wise and true, to a T.
I pretty much do that when it comes to bidding for kits online. I wait for the next convention, and pray that the popular kits from the last convention have dropped in prices considerably. If not, I wait some more (Unless it’s a grail kit).
The problem is, my greed always gets the best of me, and I start labeling kits “Must haves” left and right. Before I know it, I have another 1000 dollar debt. It’s never pretty come convention time.
Somewhere along the line, I went from “Guy who wants to learn how to build perfect garage kits” to “Guy who collects original kits even though he is not financially capable”. And thanks to that, I have no time to build kits, cause my debts force me to work, which accumulates stress. When I’m stressed out, the last thing I want to do is sand/prep a kit.
It was a vicious cycle (Last April to late September), so I can definitely appreciate what you’re saying here.
Yamamoto pre-paint resin kit from All That’s Hobby 08, eh? It’s not exactly cheap though (58,800 yen). The resin kit sold for about 44,000 yen if I recall correctly.
PVCs yes, on the hand, are quite a lot cheaper.
>>serogane
You offered an explanation of your opinion in a way that promotes dialog, even if a bit strongly worded I don’t see a problem there.
I like this figure personally, but I’ll readily admit that Toushirou’s work is very distinctive and not equally suited to accurate interpretation of every character that’s out there. On the other hand, the same could be said for a lot of doujinshi authors who are nonetheless acclaimed for the parody work they do in their own distinctive styles; I like this kit because I like Toushirou’s style, not because I think it’s a particularly accurate representation of Saber.
I could go further in a defense of the figure but I’ll stop for now before this becomes an essay.
>>>Shingo
No I totally understand what you mean. I like Toushirou a lot too. He’s definitely in my top 5 as far as favorite sculptors go.
I guess my main gripe with this kit is that Saber should be bustier or have a “Fuller” figure to match that mature face of hers. I mean, if you’re going to stray from a well-known look, might as well go all out and not just stop at the face.
I see Saber as a ’signature’ piece. It looks like a Toushirou, and for Saber that’s a good thing. Saber is a ‘clean slate’ character, her outfit, weapons and hair are her signature, and Toushirou’s rendition of both is sufficiently faithful. The rest (face, body lines) are purely Toushirou’s interpretation, which I find stunning. So she has a slender body, well, she has a slender body in the game and the anime. So she has a fairly large head/face - that’s Toushirou. I just don’t see how a fan of his work in general would dislike this one as it is purely signature and somehow actually more involved and detailed than any of his previous works, which are already considered by many to be the best or among the best in the realm. This is my point.
As far as kit prices go, I see the scalp prices as validation of the product, that people who have the money will spend that much to get it. Obviously a lot of people who could afford it were not able to be at the show. My comment relating it to movies was obviously misconstrued by you (serogane). My point was not related to ‘hit status’ it was this: Popularity and Quality are not automatically a tandem. Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it’s good and vice-versa. Popular opinion in America was once against integration, and thought that heroin was a ward against illness.
Lastly, if anything I’ve written was interpreted as a cheap-shot, I apologize. That’s not the kind of guy I am. I simply wanted to voice my support for Toushirou’s amazing work and to take issue with arguments against so as to provide a counterbalance for those reading that are not as familiar with the hobby.
>>>the_pseudokings
No worries. I apologize too for saying things that I probably wouldn’t have said under normal circumstances.
Perhaps my feelings will change when presented with the kit in its full glory (i.e. Built and painted in front of me; I do like 1/4 scale kits). It is a 3D model, so I suppose the picture alone is insufficient for faithful presentation.
Please note that I have never played the Fate/Stay Night eroge nor seen any scenes of her in her birthday suit. My knowledge of Saber comes mainly from the PG anime, so my interpretation of her is solely based on it. I just have a hard time picturing her in such a skinny frame with all the armor off.
Most, if not all of Toushirou’s works depict mature looking, full figured women from eroge, popular artwork or fan service manga (Save two older kits, but I didn’t like them at all). There’s Koyori, Kanu, Chun-Li and Mizuki to name a few. I have no problem envisioning *them* nude (Like Saber above) since their original outfits left little to the imagination.
This Saber kit is the only recent kit to not follow this full, hourglass figure trend, hence my initial shock and current disapproval. Plus, I’ve always pictured Saber as somewhat of a solemn, stubborn character (Never revealing a bit of skin; always donning a full bodied armor), so seeing her nude like this is just very weird and unpleasant for me. I admire his courage to stray from his past winning formula and to try to attempt something different than usual, but in the end it didn’t work for me. I just can’t lie and force myself to say “Oh but it’s Toushirou so I guess I have to love it”.
Being one of my favorite sculptors and all, it’s not unfair of me to have higher expectations for him.
Regarding scalpers - Yes I believe most of us here can afford to pay $300 for the Saber kit and that the ending YJA prices validates the popularity of this kit (But does it validate the quality as well? That is another issue I will discuss later in brief). But as you say, not all of us here can afford plane tickets, accommodation, and most importantly of all time to go to these conventions. The Middleman (aka scalpers) give us a convenient alternative, provided that you’ve got the money. You’re basically saving time with money. It’s really up to each individual to decide ultimately which one they care more about.
As of now, I’m basically in favor of scalpers/middlemen since I have no easy access to these conventions.
Well sure, I admit that quality and popularity aren’t always mutually inclusive. Something can be totally over hyped by popularity and not actually be good.
But surely you agree that quality and popularity aren’t mutually exclusive either. It does swing both ways (It can be popular because of its quality).
But this quality vs popularity discussion is all very subjective, no? We’re not going to reach an easy conclusion with this (Just like how we’re unlikely to both agree on whether this kit is amazing or not amazing).
I appreciate your reply though. Seriously, it’s a cool thing to do.
>>serogane
It’s all good, and it’s not like I’m saying good things can’t be popular. I just think that everything good AND popular generally gets its due respect and things that are good but aren’t popular are generally not popular because people just don’t know they exist. That’s my point. So as a rule I ‘promote’ things that I dig that are high quality, because well, it just seems like someone should, ya know? And even if it’s not your cup of tea, I’m sure you respect the work involved and will admit that it is better than a hell of a lot of the other Saber kits out there.
As one last comment about the Saber, every time I finally see a Toushirou in person (get the PVC in the mail), it always blows me away. Case in point, I just got in the 1/4 Mina (White Skin Ver.) Daiki PVC and was just absolutely amazed. It’s just so huge. I’ve got the Koyori and I love it and it’s massive, but due to her pose her size is a little muted. That is certainly not the case with the Mina. So although I don’t back down at all from my ‘advocate position’ for the Saber, I will admit that I’m currently riding a bit of a ‘Toushirou high’ that carried over into this run of posts/comments.
>>>the_pseudokings
Amen to that.
And no, I don’t expect you to back down from your stance. I’m not here to change anyone’s opinion on things, because obviously everyone has different tastes.
Besides, if a few paragraph’s spiel by some stranger on the net can change your stance on what you like or dislike, then…well I have no words.
That 1/4 Mina Majikina was actually the first Toushirou kit that I bought (And quite possibly my favorite next to Kanu and Mai). The box is massive! I have neither the skill nor courage to pop it open and start building. It’s such an amazing kit, even the box itself is appealing. I can easily sit and stare at it for a good five minutes.
>> serogane
Actually, Saber did appear nude in the PG anime. She came out of the bathroom nude and the male protagonist was embarrassed. But Saber just shrugged it off, saying something like ‘there’s nothing to be embarrassed about’, if I remembered correctly.
And, yeah, she’s a wafey loli. Definitely, not a full bodied woman yet. So in a sense, Cobra is quite accurate.
Anyway, I still like it. But as my figure modeling skill sucks (I’ve damaged quite a number of original and fake kits already), I’ve stopped buying expensive g-kits and will wait patiently for completed figures (PVC or otherwise).
I do hope that if Cobra’s Saber is finally produced (by Daiki, Yamato or others), they’ll keep the full body nude. But just like Mai or Mina, the mass-produced version may be partially or fully ‘censored’.
But that’s the price an unskilled modeller like me have to pay. 8)