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	<title>Comments on: Demo-tan: Moe?</title>
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	<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/</link>
	<description>Modern Visual Culture Digest</description>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6988</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Oct 2006 03:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6988</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;10

That sounds oddly like tsundere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;&gt;10</p>
<p>That sounds oddly like tsundere.</p>
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		<title>By: Insectice</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6977</link>
		<dc:creator>Insectice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Oct 2006 04:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6977</guid>
		<description>If you want her to be an anthropomorphism of democracy (be it Ancient Greek or just in general), I reckon she should be a bit bossy, telling other people what to do (as democratic countries believe themselves to be the righteous good), all the while being indecisive in her own decisions (like a properly run democracy with differing opinions should be).

All in all, it should be in line with *your* vision, because you know what you want best. The first stop to good art is the artisan being pleased with what he sees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want her to be an anthropomorphism of democracy (be it Ancient Greek or just in general), I reckon she should be a bit bossy, telling other people what to do (as democratic countries believe themselves to be the righteous good), all the while being indecisive in her own decisions (like a properly run democracy with differing opinions should be).</p>
<p>All in all, it should be in line with *your* vision, because you know what you want best. The first stop to good art is the artisan being pleased with what he sees.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard "Pocky" Kim</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6970</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard "Pocky" Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 18:11:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6970</guid>
		<description>&quot;Moe is as moe does.&quot;

I&#039;ve always been of the opinion that moe is a personal thing, that just happens to match the tastes of other people on a broader level.

I.E. I love meganekko. I have my own reasons for loving them. I know there are tons of other meganekko fans out there, who love them for their own reasons, which often don&#039;t match mine.

This is what makes moe, in my opinion, hard to lock down as a set of genres; each person experiences it differently enough to make it difficult to make a 100% blanket statement about any them.

I like Demo-tan. Her hair&#039;s short for my tastes, and she lacks megane (&gt;.&gt;), but she&#039;s very cute and spunky, which I think reflects this site very well. ^_^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Moe is as moe does.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been of the opinion that moe is a personal thing, that just happens to match the tastes of other people on a broader level.</p>
<p>I.E. I love meganekko. I have my own reasons for loving them. I know there are tons of other meganekko fans out there, who love them for their own reasons, which often don&#8217;t match mine.</p>
<p>This is what makes moe, in my opinion, hard to lock down as a set of genres; each person experiences it differently enough to make it difficult to make a 100% blanket statement about any them.</p>
<p>I like Demo-tan. Her hair&#8217;s short for my tastes, and she lacks megane (&gt;.&gt;), but she&#8217;s very cute and spunky, which I think reflects this site very well. ^_^</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6969</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 17:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6969</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s say that Demo-tan is moe anthropomorphism for democracy. Democracy originates from ancient Greece and thus her wearing a toga and a garland makes perfect sense. Her sandals are Japanese type which doesn&#039;t fit the democracy theme. This is just a minor detail that doesn&#039;t really matter.

Her blonde hair and blue eyes don&#039;t catch the feeling of ancient Greece either, instead they give her sort of angelic presence which is ruined by her overconfident attidute. Mayby it&#039;s just me but overconfident angel just doesn&#039;t sound right to me. So if she didn&#039;t have such an attidute and she had wings or a halo, she&#039;d look much more like angel than moe anthropomorphism for democracy.

However I think that Demo-tan can be seen as a moe. Confident, arrogant and tomboyish characters can be considered moe characters by some. There is no absolute definition of moe, just a big bunch of moe characteristics. Though Demo-tan doesn&#039;t feature any typical moe characteristics and is quite far from stereotype moe characters, she can be considered moe by some people. For example I like girls with short hair but since I don&#039;t really like overconfident and pushy girls, I don&#039;t really know what to think about Demo-tan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s say that Demo-tan is moe anthropomorphism for democracy. Democracy originates from ancient Greece and thus her wearing a toga and a garland makes perfect sense. Her sandals are Japanese type which doesn&#8217;t fit the democracy theme. This is just a minor detail that doesn&#8217;t really matter.</p>
<p>Her blonde hair and blue eyes don&#8217;t catch the feeling of ancient Greece either, instead they give her sort of angelic presence which is ruined by her overconfident attidute. Mayby it&#8217;s just me but overconfident angel just doesn&#8217;t sound right to me. So if she didn&#8217;t have such an attidute and she had wings or a halo, she&#8217;d look much more like angel than moe anthropomorphism for democracy.</p>
<p>However I think that Demo-tan can be seen as a moe. Confident, arrogant and tomboyish characters can be considered moe characters by some. There is no absolute definition of moe, just a big bunch of moe characteristics. Though Demo-tan doesn&#8217;t feature any typical moe characteristics and is quite far from stereotype moe characters, she can be considered moe by some people. For example I like girls with short hair but since I don&#8217;t really like overconfident and pushy girls, I don&#8217;t really know what to think about Demo-tan.</p>
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		<title>By: SDS</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6966</link>
		<dc:creator>SDS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 12:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6966</guid>
		<description>Cagalli, however, IS moe, and to say &quot;she looks too much like Cagalli&quot; is implying that therein lies part of the &quot;problem.&quot;

I think the idea of the character looking past the viewer rather than at the viewer is an intriguing one, and I think that&#039;s the point at which you should start.  Confidence is not automatically unmoetic, nor are angry eyes, snaggleteeth, ears, or pointed fingers.  

Have Demo-tan looking not at the viewer, but at the prospective feature of spreading moetic democracy to the world, give her big dreams that she wants to fulfill, and I think there you will find moe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cagalli, however, IS moe, and to say &#8220;she looks too much like Cagalli&#8221; is implying that therein lies part of the &#8220;problem.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think the idea of the character looking past the viewer rather than at the viewer is an intriguing one, and I think that&#8217;s the point at which you should start.  Confidence is not automatically unmoetic, nor are angry eyes, snaggleteeth, ears, or pointed fingers.  </p>
<p>Have Demo-tan looking not at the viewer, but at the prospective feature of spreading moetic democracy to the world, give her big dreams that she wants to fulfill, and I think there you will find moe.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6961</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Oct 2006 05:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6961</guid>
		<description>Hi, I&#039;m the anonymous whose post you quoted. FYI, the first paragraph of the quote is actually a quote from a previous post that I was responding to.

I wasn&#039;t really trying to make a comment on the image&#039;s moeness, but on what makes it stand out as being, if you&#039;ll forgive the terms, wapanese or weeaboo.

As for the lack of moe qualities, the pose does need to be less... - confident isn&#039;t the right word - less confrontational? More general happiness, genkiness, if you will. Less &quot;attitude&quot; circa mid-90s platform game mascots. The shinyness of her skin is something you see more often in porn images or bath scenes than basic portraits.

Comment &gt;&gt;1 mentioned that she doesn&#039;t have an overarching universe to draw in the viewer. I think it&#039;s not necessary to have that, an image of a cute character can and should be able to stand on its own, creating that moe feeling regardless of whether any backstory has been written about it. Many well-known and loved mascot characters started as little more than  one-note ideas. Windows ME, a buggy OS turns into a clumsy maid. The Fastech 360 bullet train turns into a catgirl because of its cat ear shaped air brakes. The Nijiura maids, born out of cheap puns. http://shii.org/maids/

My point wasn&#039;t that the viewer should become part of the narrative, but that he(or perhaps the creator?) should not intrude on the narrative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I&#8217;m the anonymous whose post you quoted. FYI, the first paragraph of the quote is actually a quote from a previous post that I was responding to.</p>
<p>I wasn&#8217;t really trying to make a comment on the image&#8217;s moeness, but on what makes it stand out as being, if you&#8217;ll forgive the terms, wapanese or weeaboo.</p>
<p>As for the lack of moe qualities, the pose does need to be less&#8230; &#8211; confident isn&#8217;t the right word &#8211; less confrontational? More general happiness, genkiness, if you will. Less &#8220;attitude&#8221; circa mid-90s platform game mascots. The shinyness of her skin is something you see more often in porn images or bath scenes than basic portraits.</p>
<p>Comment &gt;&gt;1 mentioned that she doesn&#8217;t have an overarching universe to draw in the viewer. I think it&#8217;s not necessary to have that, an image of a cute character can and should be able to stand on its own, creating that moe feeling regardless of whether any backstory has been written about it. Many well-known and loved mascot characters started as little more than  one-note ideas. Windows ME, a buggy OS turns into a clumsy maid. The Fastech 360 bullet train turns into a catgirl because of its cat ear shaped air brakes. The Nijiura maids, born out of cheap puns. <a href="http://shii.org/maids/" rel="nofollow">http://shii.org/maids/</a></p>
<p>My point wasn&#8217;t that the viewer should become part of the narrative, but that he(or perhaps the creator?) should not intrude on the narrative.</p>
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		<title>By: kantan</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6924</link>
		<dc:creator>kantan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 05:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6924</guid>
		<description>The ahoge would be nice. she definatley does give off a &quot;hey, im american&quot; feeling. Not to say all american artists are bad, look at Fred (megatokyo) for instance. His characters have their own style to them that shows its definately not japanese but each and every character has some element of moe to them. 

In my opinion, she needs more shading, less teeth, thinner drawn lines, smaller or no ears showing, and as anonymous stated, the pose needs to be less confident. Also the eyes need to be done differently.

As of now she reminds me of Kagali from Gundam Seed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ahoge would be nice. she definatley does give off a &#8220;hey, im american&#8221; feeling. Not to say all american artists are bad, look at Fred (megatokyo) for instance. His characters have their own style to them that shows its definately not japanese but each and every character has some element of moe to them. </p>
<p>In my opinion, she needs more shading, less teeth, thinner drawn lines, smaller or no ears showing, and as anonymous stated, the pose needs to be less confident. Also the eyes need to be done differently.</p>
<p>As of now she reminds me of Kagali from Gundam Seed.</p>
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		<title>By: Tsubaki</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6923</link>
		<dc:creator>Tsubaki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 04:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6923</guid>
		<description>I know why she isn&#039;t moe enough. She&#039;s missing an Ahoge. TEH IMPORTANT WIN FOR MOE-ISM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know why she isn&#8217;t moe enough. She&#8217;s missing an Ahoge. TEH IMPORTANT WIN FOR MOE-ISM.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon jones</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6917</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6917</guid>
		<description>Hmm... I can&#039;t add anything to the intellectual discussion at hand. I just think a hairstyle that shows more of her forehead would suit her better... =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm&#8230; I can&#8217;t add anything to the intellectual discussion at hand. I just think a hairstyle that shows more of her forehead would suit her better&#8230; =)</p>
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		<title>By: Shingo</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6916</link>
		<dc:creator>Shingo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6916</guid>
		<description>&gt;&gt;Randall Fitzgerald

I don&#039;t disagree with you; Demo-tan as currently rendered falls short in some of the clinically aesthetic &quot;moe specs&quot; that both you and Anonymous identify. However, were it the case that one could merely follow a list of technical guidelines to produce moe characters I think we&#039;d see a lot more of them from Western artists.

On the other hand, a lot of the characters currently gracing moe-themed Japanese magazines are very much from a cookie-cutter, color-by-number mold. If I were to hazard a guess I&#039;d say Clockwork Machina was trying to deliberately escape that mold and create something original and fresh, but by doing so strayed from the path of mainstream moe.

Regardless of whether moe lies only in the lines on the page or in some element of the artist&#039;s intent, I believe the final product does follow the rule Anonymous hints at - the moe character doesn&#039;t look at &lt;em&gt;you,&lt;/em&gt; she looks at a fictional abstraction of you that is consonant with her narrative. And for whatever reason (probably because I asked them to), Clockwork&#039;s current rendition doesn&#039;t do that. Not that I think it necessarily has to to be an effective mascot, mind you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>>Randall Fitzgerald</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with you; Demo-tan as currently rendered falls short in some of the clinically aesthetic &#8220;moe specs&#8221; that both you and Anonymous identify. However, were it the case that one could merely follow a list of technical guidelines to produce moe characters I think we&#8217;d see a lot more of them from Western artists.</p>
<p>On the other hand, a lot of the characters currently gracing moe-themed Japanese magazines are very much from a cookie-cutter, color-by-number mold. If I were to hazard a guess I&#8217;d say Clockwork Machina was trying to deliberately escape that mold and create something original and fresh, but by doing so strayed from the path of mainstream moe.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether moe lies only in the lines on the page or in some element of the artist&#8217;s intent, I believe the final product does follow the rule Anonymous hints at &#8211; the moe character doesn&#8217;t look at <em>you,</em> she looks at a fictional abstraction of you that is consonant with her narrative. And for whatever reason (probably because I asked them to), Clockwork&#8217;s current rendition doesn&#8217;t do that. Not that I think it necessarily has to to be an effective mascot, mind you.</p>
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		<title>By: Randall Fitzgerald</title>
		<link>http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/comment-page-1/#comment-6915</link>
		<dc:creator>Randall Fitzgerald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:06:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://heiseidemocracy.com/2006/10/06/demo-tan-moe/#comment-6915</guid>
		<description>i hate to be contrary (not really... bwahaha!) but I wonder if the reason it&#039;s not &quot;moe&quot; isn&#039;t as much to do with how we engage the character, but more the aesthetic qualities themselves that we come to expect. It&#039;s not so much that she engages us as part of her narritive, I mean, Demo-tan both lacks an overarching universe of her own to draw us into, the same as most mascots, and when I look at her I get a sort of tsuntsun &quot;desho?&quot; kind of feeling. I hope that makes sense. So, I can certainly identify her with that branch of moe, if you like, without a whole lot of trouble. The trouble comes when I run her aesthetic up against that of other &quot;proper&quot; Japanese and Japanese-style bodies of work. While I feel Annonyomous is rather spot on with the characteristics described, he seems to pull them into a more psychological tangent without much of a bridge. Or maybe that was Shingo. Whichever.

That being said, I&#039;d like to point out that this is one of the few non-Japanese works that registers on the &quot;fetish&quot; scale (if you will) at all. I mean, bravo. SRRSLY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i hate to be contrary (not really&#8230; bwahaha!) but I wonder if the reason it&#8217;s not &#8220;moe&#8221; isn&#8217;t as much to do with how we engage the character, but more the aesthetic qualities themselves that we come to expect. It&#8217;s not so much that she engages us as part of her narritive, I mean, Demo-tan both lacks an overarching universe of her own to draw us into, the same as most mascots, and when I look at her I get a sort of tsuntsun &#8220;desho?&#8221; kind of feeling. I hope that makes sense. So, I can certainly identify her with that branch of moe, if you like, without a whole lot of trouble. The trouble comes when I run her aesthetic up against that of other &#8220;proper&#8221; Japanese and Japanese-style bodies of work. While I feel Annonyomous is rather spot on with the characteristics described, he seems to pull them into a more psychological tangent without much of a bridge. Or maybe that was Shingo. Whichever.</p>
<p>That being said, I&#8217;d like to point out that this is one of the few non-Japanese works that registers on the &#8220;fetish&#8221; scale (if you will) at all. I mean, bravo. SRRSLY.</p>
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